Intresting Question

[Rayne]

What would happen if, The Instopable Force was used against, The Imoveable Object. Who would win? If you dont know those 2 items are AV rewards. 1 is a mace, the other is a shield.

If the mace is unstopable, but the shield is imovable who would win? Its quite a tricky question. Kind of makes your head hurt.

[Severian]

If an irresistible/unstoppable force exists, then no object is immovable, and vice versa. An immovable object would have to have infinite inertia and therefore infinite mass. Such an object would collapse under its own gravity and create a singularity. An irresistible force would imply an infinite energy, which by Einstein's equation E = mc2 is equivalent to an infinite mass. It is logically impossible to have these two entities (a force that cannot be resisted and an object that cannot be moved by any force) in the same universe. So in this case logic wins.

[Rayne]

While your arguement valid in theory the fact remains these 2 objects do exist. Two such different items must exist in fact. You cannot have 1 without the other. Without a sense of being "immovable" then the concept of "unstopable" would mean nothing.

One plays off the other and gives meaning to each other. To be unstoppable there must be some force in the world capable of stopping it. In turn to be immovable there must also be something able to move it or the impact of the words are nothing.

Basic ying/yang pretty much. For light there must be darkness. For 1 to exist so must the other. If we deny the existance of one we must also deny the other. Would you deny God but Embrace Satan, but in the simple act of embracing the idea of satan you also acknowledge the existance of god.

For something to be Unstopable there must be something Immoveable. If these 2 ever met is up to fate however they rely on each other for existance.

[Tsikura]

Just get chuck norris, he'll kick the shit out of the two.

[hxiss]

well i might sound like a dum ass cuz im not much for thinking very well. (((drugs fry brains))) u guy do state very great oppinions. From what astonimors have discovered at the outter edges of the univers so far puts e=mc2 to question which is acctually a scary thought. Explosions that seem to come from nowhere or nothing but r so massiver they effect our own area of the universe. whos to say the same couldnt exist here in front of our very eyes. energy itself is unmovible and unstoppble. ever a corpes has energy wether its the breaking down of it pysical form or even something the prevents such a thing as u would see happens if u were dummped in a bog. hope it all makes sence. prolly not lol

[Severian]

Tao Te Ching or no Tao Te Ching an immoveable object can not exist in the same reality as an unstoppable force.

One plays off the other and gives meaning to each other. To be unstoppable there must be some force in the world capable of stopping it. In turn to be immovable there must also be something able to move it or the impact of the words are nothing.

If their is something that can stop an unstoppable force it is, by definition, no longer unstoppable... same with an immoveable object.

In keeping with my love of paradoxes and things asian...

The Chinese word for paradox is literally "spear shield." The word originates from a story where a vendor was trying to sell a spear and shield. When asked how good his spear was, he said that his spear could pierce any shield. Then, when asked how good his shield was, he said that it could defend all spear attacks. Then one person asked him what would happen if he were to take his spear to strike his shield. He could not answer, and this led to the idiom of "self-contradictory".

But back to science... an object with infinite inertia can not exist!

[Cyren]

Simple solution.

The Unstoppable Force is not really unstoppable. It SEEMS unstoppable.

The Immovable Object is not really immovable, it can be moved, but not very easily.

This is of course poetic license on Blizzards part, or hyperbole, whichever you prefer. It's like saying a fast car is lightning quick or goes warp speed.

[Severian]

Simple solution.

The Unstoppable Force is not really unstoppable. It SEEMS unstoppable.

The Immovable Object is not really immovable, it can be moved, but not very easily.

This is of course poetic license on Blizzards part, or hyperbole, whichever you prefer. It's like saying a fast car is lightning quick or goes warp speed.

See, Cyren understands.

[Sokaris]

It's false advertising. The Goblins made one, the Gnomes the other. They are just in competition.

[Garuk]

Neither exist, nor can they ever exist, nor can they even be fathomed or "tested". It's a philosophy that was not meant to be answered.

By the context of their description, it would seem that they either hold infinite energy or infinite inertia as the guy up there mentioned. Taking "time", as an example, measuring an infinite value is impossible because of the lack of a start or end. There is no point of reference other than one arbitrarily determined by someone or something. To say it is unstoppable is to say it retains an infinite amount of energy/motion/value, whatever unit you wish to apply. However, the only thing capable of achieving the status of infinite would be time, but there is no way of finding this out. Even the universe has an end, which is just mind boggling to think about. How can there be an end to something, when that something already contains nothing?

The whole thing started when people argued that travelling at the speed of light would be impossible, because it required infinite energy to move infinite mass. As we know, thats impossible but we've sort of passed that boundary in science. I've rambled on enough and i gotta shovel the damn driveway. Enjoy! [/i]

[Dami]

heres how we solve this. we all either smoke a blunt or get drunk as hell and have a late night discussion to put this to an end.

[Garuk]

Leave it do Dami to completely destroy any ethical value this had. But you know, thats not such a bad idea.....

[Farslayer]

Since we've already trotted out Einstein, this problem has a fairly simple solution. Since there is not objective point of reference to define "movement", all movement is in relation to other objects, and that movement is perceived subjectively.

Let's say that the Unstoppable Force meets the Immovable Object in Durotar and, for the sake of the discussion, the two items are moved 20 yards closer to Orgrimmar. This obviously satisfies the Unstoppable condition of the Force. However, it is also possible to say that the Immovable Object remained at rest while Orgrimmar moved 20 yards closer to it. From a relativisitic standpoint, this is a valid solution.

What if the two were to meet in a void? Since there are no objects for movement to be measured in relation to, the question is meaningless.

Speaking of such things, the Zen "two-sides of a coin" concept does not logically apply to two such physical absolutes. They are, by definition, one-sided coins (and, as such, logical impossibilities).

It's early and I haven't had my coffee yet...

[Garuk]

Heh, I like Farslayers explanation but it doesn't really give an answer to the question. I actually went as far as asking my physics teacher this today after my exam, and I got an answer that went something like this...

"To define an item which possesses a quality of the value infinite, would be to subject it to all infinite values. The name "Unstoppable Force" is suggesting the item has an infinite value, whether it be kinetic energy, elastic potential, thermal, whatever. To say an item is infinite, all aspects and all values fathomable by man must be applied in infinite value. Thus, it also has infinte light, sound, speed, thermal energy, and even infinite inertia. Because of this infinite mass, the object itself is a paradox. It can not exist in real life, nor can it be thought about in virtuality.

So if it has infinite kinetic energy, it must be moving at an ever increasing rate of acceleration and its velocity would be every growing. However, it must also possess force of direction (displacement in the case of velocity). This would be to suggest that it is moving in every direction, all at once, at an speed much quicker than light. Not possible, if it has infinite intertia due to its infinte mass...inertia being the objects ability to resist a change in movement. In this case, its ability to resist moving at all. However, if its an item of infinite value, then it must be moving....

The only value capable of achieving infinite status is time, because regardless of whether or not there is a placemarker to measure it by, it continues. There is no recipricol value of time, and thus it is able to proceed into infinitum."

That pretty much made me realize that the whole issue actually has an answer which I can believe.

[Beerserker]

this post seems like deja vu. did you read it on another forum, ray? i'm pretty sure i've seen it before

[Severian]

Heh, I like Farslayers explanation but it doesn't really give an answer to the question. I actually went as far as asking my physics teacher this today after my exam, and I got an answer that went something like this...

I like your teacher

If an irresistible/unstoppable force exists, then no object is immovable, and vice versa. An immovable object would have to have infinite inertia and therefore infinite mass. Such an object would collapse under its own gravity and create a singularity. An irresistible force would imply an infinite energy, which by Einstein's equation E = mc2 is equivalent to an infinite mass. It is logically impossible to have these two entities (a force that cannot be resisted and an object that cannot be moved by any force) in the same universe. So in this case logic wins.

Coming soon to a new thread.... Schrödinger's "cat paradox paper" The Present Situation In Quantum Mechanics.

[Arthen]

There is no unstoppable and unmovable force. these myths were created when chuck norris' roundhouse kick (unstoppable) colided with his beard (unmoveable)

[Garuk]

Word Severian, word. His name is Mr. Levan and he is the most eccentric person I have ever met. I have been passed this great knowledge and will use it to manipulate..........nevermind.

[Farslayer]

"I'll be sober tomorrow, but you'll be ugly for the rest of your life." - Gord Sutherland

Why would anyone say such a thing. I'm pretty sure I'd rather be ugly for the rest of my life than sober...